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Popularity in Anime - The wall that divides Japan and the world

by feal871. January 2012 19:34

Hello,

Here we are again to have a talk about some common anime topic while waiting for the winter season 2011 to properly start in a few days time next week. (at the moment only a pre-air version of Rinne no Lagrange's first episode got aired).

In this week, I had quite a "heated" discussion around the web with some friends on the meaning of "popularity and success of an anime series" after the sales quantity information of the first volume of the fall season anime got released to the public. (thanks to alex for the heads up)

The concepts of "popularity" and "success" of an anime series are two very different concepts based on different premises. Analyzing these two concepts I tried to understand a bit more the invisible wall dividing Japan from the rest of the world.

When an anime is successful? After a bit of talk we convened that raw success for an anime series is obtained by watching to the sales number of the anime DVD/BD in Japan that are the main source of sustainance for the anime production industry that allow us to get more and more anime series every season.

When an anime is popular? An anime is popular when it has a big quantity of followers and fans, when communities get created for the sole purpose of talking over it and is measured mainly by the raw quantity of people who watched (through different means) and liked a particular anime series.

As we know, Anime DVD/BD is treated in Japan as a collector item, something extremely expensive (over 80-90€ per BD sometimes) that only a selected cadre of few people buy, but at the same time given a big enough number of people (by statistical means) in both categories the composition and percentages of the choice should be pretty much at the same level.

Just to take something as a reference, a typical (not talking about big hits like Madoka Magica or similar) successful anime series sell around 5000-6000 copies (BD/DVD combined) each volume and, depending on the quantity of work that was needed to create it, an anime studio need from 2750 to 4000 copies to recover the costs of production.

Unfortunately, by looking at the sales numbers through the history I immediately noticed that there is some kind of deep rift between the popularity of an anime series in the whole world and its success in sales in Japan.

In order to understand better about this rift let's give a look at the sales result of some anime series first volume of the fall season 2011. A season that had plenty of big names and interesting series to watch and blog about and should be a good example to notice this effect.

Let's pick up Mirai Nikki, one of the series who pretty much everyone around the blogosphere liked and that is quite popular in various anime community around the world. The first BD volume of Mirai Nikki got 2,336 item sold, well under the safe zone for recovering the production costs.

At the same time Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon, an anime series not really popular in the blogosphere with no enormous fandom around the world got a wobbling 16,349 BDs sold in its first volume. A number that greatly overcome even series like Shakugan no Shana (the first season) who got in the 2005 "only" 12.198 copies for its first volume.

Even Tamayura, considered by many bloggers around here an "extremely unpopular choice" got more than Mirai Nikki with a great 4.077 BDs sold in its first volume, something definitely massive for such a low-production values (animation quality and audio quality) anime series.

These are only few examples extracted from the recent series data, but going through the whole list of BD/DVD sales in the history this trend is repeated from time to time regularly showing that it isn't just a coincidence.

The only conclusion I can take after watching this data is that there is some big invisible wall separating the tastes of japanese anime watchers from the ones of the rest of the world.

The question I have at this point is, why there is this big difference in terms of "tastes" between the average world anime watcher and the japanese ones? What is the reason influencing them to choose something very different from what we would normally do?

And you? What do you think about the link between success and popularity of an anime series? Do you think that we have a wall separating Japan's tastes from the rest of the world one?

See you soon,

feal87

P.S. Happy new year! Hope you'll continue to follow this little blog! :)

Category: General, Miscellaneous, To Love Ru!, Wallpapers
Comments (103)
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Comments (103) -

1/1/2012 7:49:30 PM #

Separation of tastes? Maybe, that's hard to tell. But in the hard numbers of sales, I see it like this. Why would someone (like a lot of us) buy a DVD/BD of a show we most likely already have on our computers?
Perhaps the sales have a bit psychology behind them, and I didn't see any sales numbers for items like figures, music, or other non-DVD/BD material. I don't think tastes are different, but maybe the views on what they will and will not buy isn't the same as some of us around the world would think. Why go out and buy a popular series DVD if it's (first, popular) probably going to be available later down the line as well, perhaps with more special features. While less popular series, like Tamayura, may not be available later. Which would make a collector more inclined to spend limited resources on Tamayura, the one less likely to be available later.
Needless to say, I don't live in Japan, so this is all speculation on my part and has a high probability of being b.s. :3

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 7:54:01 PM #

Its the same in Japan, copying a dvd/bd is as easy in japan as the rest of the world. The situation just don't cope up, especially as they can even watch it in TV and recording it on a tape easily.

The point of different buying habits is definitely something to not be overlooked, but what we're talking here is why is something popular in Japan it just isn't in the rest of the world, and viceversa?

I agree on the "limited resources" part, but unfortunately from what I heard and read the values don't change much in the future. Most sales (over 90%) are done in the first couple of weeks and that's it. They live of preorders it seems...

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:01:38 PM #

Then this is a strange phenomenon, indeed.
I...honestly can't think of any way to explain it. I don't want to say that it's simply Japanese tastes are different from the rest of the world's, and that popularity spans both demographics, but the numbers are hard to argue. Personally, I like to see that Tamayura did so well, I liked it very much.
Maybe there is some invisible wall, that or we're missing something.

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 8:06:10 PM #

I'm not sure about tastes either, but I noticed as well that shooters (the category of game most sold in the US) is not first in japan at all just like most of the "western" games. How should we think about this as well?

Tamayura success is something that I appreciated as well. Because that means that studios will work and do more series like that in order to get more profit, try to think about it. Something like Tamayura "The second"! That sound awesome or not?

Lack of information is a possibility, but well...

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:11:39 PM #

Another Tamayura would be nice :3

I don't know, it just feels like we're missing something. I can imagine first-person shooters sell well in places like the U.S. because the main points are typically U.S. forces fighting terrorists (the modern set ones, anyway). So there's an easy selling point right there. Meanwhile, I have no idea what game genres sell well in Japan right now...

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 8:14:31 PM #

Definitely a great idea to have another Tamayura.

Typically the top sales are revolving around JRPGs like "Tales of" series or "Final Fantasy" and stuff like that. I think you should know these ones.
Also games like IdolMaster are incredibly popular in japan while almost don't exist in the US or well western world.

I wonder what's the link between all this...

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:19:32 PM #

With series-related video games, it's more cost effective to restrict sales to Japan. The fanbases are too far and few in-between globally to make it worthwhile to distribute. RPGs don't have much following (openly) in the U.S. except for big name games like WoW, which I don't prefer because of the overwhelming number of people who screw around or take it too seriously (right now, I'm playing Maginogi).
The more this goes on, the more I'm forced to start admitting that it's probably a difference in tastes...
....but not entirely. As shown, I share some of the same preferences that the Japanese markets seem to trend, although I live in the U.S. I'm also reminded that marketing makes or breaks products these days. Maybe the advertising for some series' products has something to do with it. If a popular series has a DVD/BD coming out, maybe they don't feel the need to advertise as much. Therefore picking up fewer sales.

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 8:24:59 PM #

Agreed, that's definitely an issue because selling around the globe isn't exactly the most cost-effective way. Fortunately with the advent of Steam and digital delivery services is becoming more reasonable and hopefully we'll see a change in this behaviour.

Tastes definitely are present in this situation, maybe influenced by cultural differences. How the society runs out there.

Maybe, but at that price point I'm not sure many americans would buy it anyway. Maybe its also how we relate with these items, we see "here" DVD as disposable items while in Japan these boxes are collectors item generating more prestige value in the fans.

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:30:15 PM #

Personally, if I paid for a DVD/BD to be shipped to me, most likely I already have the series on my hard drive and just want the physical disc to put on my shelf. I've already read all the K-On! manga online, but I still pay 15$ at my local bookstore for whatever they bring in that I don't have. I paid nearly $30 for a Tooru figure to be shipped, all I wanted was to put it on my shelf. I do the same thing to DVDs I buy here. I rarely put anything in the DVD player more than once or twice, and that's usually right after I buy them. To Americans, "DVDs are disposable"? yes and no, depends on who you talk to. I like to keep my boxes nice and I'll buy DVDs knowing full well I may only watch it once this year. (Or maybe that's just me)
If I ever paid up to $80 for a anime DVD/BD, I'd probably lock it up tight, only take it out on rare occasions :3

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 8:37:33 PM #

In my case I don't have much DVDs or BDs apart from a couple series ordered directly from Japan.
On the positive side I do have over 240 mangas all in original language that I read and is a nice way to promote the writers to make more good stories!
Figures? At the moment only 4 on my shelf with 2 coming up soon...but wait we're the minority. I don't think many people that watches anime do actually order stuff from Japan at all...

Ahahah, that's what I was talking about "disposable", because they sell entire seasons at 60-70 dollars while they sell here 2 episodes at 80$. It's quite a big difference imho...

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:50:40 PM #

We're not really in a position to debate this, as you said, we're the minority :3 the few anime fans outside of Japan who would actually pay high dollar to have memorabilia from our favorite shows shipped to us :3
It is a big difference, when you order straight from Japan and depending on the show. I can go Wal-Mart right now and pick up a whole season of Bleach or Naruto for like $30...but if I ordered it from Japan, probably could be double that.

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 8:57:42 PM #

Yep, few, but we try to sustain the hobby we like with our money!

But at the same time only few series actually are available in the US, that means if you want to stay updated or get limited goodies of the Japan release you need to go there and order.

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 9:12:05 PM #

True, I'm actually looking at forking over some cash to get A Channel manga to have on my shelf :3 as it's not likely to be available anywhere over here

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 9:14:49 PM #

Ahahah, I have to pick it up as well in some future shipment. There are so many great manga to pick up, its hard to choose...>_<

Do you know my feeling right?!

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 9:19:25 PM #

Yeah, so I usually have to limit to just the ones I want to collect, my ultimate favorites.
And then sometimes I spoil myself, the Tooru figure was a birthday present from myself to myself :3

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 9:24:36 PM #

Always in love with Tooru I see! I agree that she's cute though...

Ahahah, I made a birthday present from myself to myself as well. It was Senjougahara Alter figure 1/7. She is so hot...:Q___

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 9:26:27 PM #

Guilty as charged, and I'm not ashamed of it :3
My main problem right now is I don't have any moneys to purchase the things I wants so badly T.T
Looking to get a job (unfortunately no one wants a college freshman who can't work during the day)
I wish I could put an ad someone on NAT, or that my Youtube ads actually made money.

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 10:00:51 PM #

Ahahah, well are you still a student!? As soon as you start working you'll probably get more money available to spend in hobbies!

Ad on a blog won't give you much so just forget about them. CpM (cost per thousands impression) in the best case would allow you 0.30$/0.40$.

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 10:03:03 PM #

I know, it's a pipe dream.
I still find myself being optimistic, but ad agencies still don't value internet ads very much.

Yeah, I'm still a student, because of my, err, stature, I don't get very good impressions at job interviews, that or they're looking for someone to work full time hours for part time pay.

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 10:15:29 PM #

Yeah

Ahahah, There are a lot searching for a full time worker for part time pay even here. It's just about searching and sooner or later you'll find the right company for you!

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 10:44:14 PM #

I'm hoping to find one soon that can work around my school schedule. And then give me the cash I need to procure the items I most desire :3

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 10:54:31 PM #

Go for it! More sales, more anime! More anime, more goodies!

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 11:19:34 PM #

Everybody wins! :3 What a wonderful cycle :3

beldenotaku | 358 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:55:36 AM #

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 8:59:05 PM #

I understand there are certain trends in Japan that aren't as popular elsewhere. In particular, there's a series I'm reading called Psyren which was really popular over here, but ended up getting cancelled in Japan due to poor reception.

Maybe there's a difference between what people want to watch on TV and what they'd actually like to buy. I'm not a Japanese viewer, so I can't say for sure.

Yerocha | 151 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 9:03:19 PM #

Psyren, I think I heard about it, but not sure...

Yes, may be that tastes actually differs vary between cultures. It's a bit sad that we won't be seeing more series like Mirai Nikki if the sales situation remain the same for the future volumes as well...

That's definitely something to think about. People watch a lot of series, but how much you end up really buying?
Try to compare with yourself, how many manga series did you actually buy after reading them in percentage?

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 9:10:14 PM #

Personally, I mainly but the first few volumes of a series before switching to reading online. I would buy more, but there are issues with both money and space. Although from my observations, there aren't too many series which have plummeting sales after the first couple volumes unless they're really bad.

Yerocha | 151 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 9:13:11 PM #

Honestly, I find it hard to read online as I generally prefer to read them while traveling or while at bed relaxing away from a personal computer and all that stuff.

Yes, space and money problem is definitely high. I bought a whole new bookshelf for manga and its already 3/5 filled with 240+ manga volumes and I don't really know where to put them as soon as that is filled up as I don't have much other space in my room...

Where is the "item minimizer"? We need one!

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 10:47:48 PM #

It's those stupid moe otakus. They buy 10 of the same figures, CDs, movie tickets (K-ON movie) etc. If a show has a waifu for them then they spend all the money on that show. See K-ON's popularity is so big because they have waifus in it (especially Mio) so they spend lots of money on them. Compare to Sora no woto which is great but they are all quite normal girls so otakus didn't find any waifu in it, that's why it didn't sell so well. C3, good show but again no real waifu = low sales.
Moe otakus spend the most money and buy many copies of the same items that's why such otaku pandering shows like Persona, Horizon sell so good.
Those idiots spend all the money on their waifus so then they don't (can't) buy other shows.

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 10:54:06 PM #

Ahahah, that's definitely something that may influence a lot the sales, after all I think that most of the sales of DVD/BD are in fact driven by otaku especially if you think about the price for episode recently. (40$ an episode...

)
It's difficult to justify in my mind such a big expense...

I agree that many series I thought to be wonderful sells really bad like C3 or Sora no Woto, but even Mirai Nikki. I rage a bit if I think that its going to be very difficult to see a second season of C^3 with these sales number. Don't you agree?

Unfortunately producers will go where money takes them so we're going to see more and more successful anime in terms of sales.

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 11:06:44 PM #

who doesn't want a 2nd season of C3

we will see more bad shows outsell the good ones - see winter season, well all shows look so bad that maybe this time they can spend money on the 1-2 good ones
After the fall season I stopped caring about the trailers and just think that the show that looks the worst will be probably the best - can't wait to see Senki Zesshou Symphogear

I could somehow understand IS selling 20k, great girls, but Horizon, WTF. Well IS is a good example, it sold so much just because of the girl.

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 11:11:48 PM #

More Kirika! More Konoha! More More More!

Ahahah, definitely I'm not digging for any series in a special way as well in this winter season 2011. I wonder why, maybe we should start to call it the "Guilty Crown effect"?
Or any other suggestion?! ;D

IS sold a lot because it was very popular as LN just as Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon sold for the same reason. People who bought and liked the LN wanted the anime as well, just that I think.

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 11:20:01 PM #

but why was the IS LN so poplar...think about it - it definitely wasn't for the plot, if the LN has a similar plot to the show

"Guilty Crown effect"
something like that

forgot to mention: I started watching Xenoglossia, just because Idolmater ended and I wanted more. I thought it would be total crap but damn it's good, I enjoy it much more than Code Geass

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 11:24:20 PM #

I definitely think its about girls. I mean, just look at Charlotte! And Laura! They're so cute...and my property!

Oh my god, please forgive me,

Spoiler: Show

You'll laugh greatly after completing Xenoglossia...
I was mixed between disgusted and entertained for the wrong reasons...

feal87 | | Reply

1/1/2012 11:31:21 PM #

Well, everyone said that I will be disappointed at the end of Sora no woto, but I loved it.

When you wrote
"I had quite a "heated" discussion around the web with some friends on the meaning of "popularity and success of an anime series" "
I immediately thought /a/

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/1/2012 11:32:13 PM #

We'll see what happen...keep me informed...

Nah, it was just an IRC chat, differently from Makise Kurisu I'm not a 4channer...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 3:50:50 AM #

lol yeah this explains one of the reason

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:37:26 AM #

Rack win?!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 1:00:20 AM #

I think that divide has a lot to do with the age demographic of the people who watch anime. In places not Japan, anime is typically watched by teenagers and then they tend to lose interest as they grow older. There's not that many mid-twenties western anime fans that I know of (in comparison with the teenagers anyway).

In Japan however it seems to me that only little kids or young adults watch anime. And as such anime is made to appeal to that kind of audience. The audience with the most buying power, as kids have their parents buy them the newest toy they saw on TV and 20 something college grads have the disposable income to buy such things as $90 DVDs. Or at least that's the impression I get, I have no scientific proof or anything :p.

exilehero | 15 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:40:09 AM #

This is something incredibly true, in the rest of the world is extremely difficult to find anime fan over 20 years old...I wonder why this happen?

True enough even if I wonder how 20 year old without a stable income and without a stable job manage to buy $90 DVD for so many series. Do they print their money in the house?! Do they avoid to eat?

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:06:04 AM #

on /m/ they are around 25 (20 - 40) yo, don't know about /a/

talking about bad shows selling good, I bet Nisemonogatari will sell 20k, I saw the trailer and I already hate it

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:08:17 AM #

Ouch...

Ahahah, I loved Bakemonogatari and eagerly waiting for Nisemonogatari, but as always its all about tastes!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 1:11:38 AM #

Hardcore otaku's aside, I think broad fanbases and "BD quality" could be factors too. Kyoukai-sen should have a rather large following because of its success in light novels, and the fact how it was very unlikely to be adapted. Then again, I have no way of telling whether there's more Kyoukai-sen fans than Shakugan no Shana.

I only brought up BD quality since you mentioned Tamayura. If I remember correctly it wasn't aired with the same resolution as the other Fall 2011 shows. So BD's were probably compensation for that.

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:46:06 AM #

Kyoukai-sen have big fanbase, that's something true, but I think Shakugan no Shana is even bigger in terms of fanbase to be honest. (the third season of Shakugan no Shana is a tremendous failure with 3K items sold compared to 10+K of the other seasons)
I'm not sure really about what to think about it...you?

Oh, didn't know about it, but still for such a small show to produce higher sales than most other show in the season is quite remarkable...:O

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 11:12:29 AM #

Well, having watched and more or less enjoyed Shakugan 1&2, I had high hopes for the 3rd season. But the first few episodes made me put the series on-hold, so I guess I can understand why the first volumes didn't sell well, as compared to Kyoukai-sen that already has a second season slated.

I only heard about the Tamayura resolution thing on a fansubbing site so I'm not entirely sure if its just one channel where the quality was off. But yeah, such a light series beating Mirai Nikki really does look surprising.

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 11:19:11 AM #

Same here, I liked the first two seasons, but the third just wasn't getting me all this interested in the storyline.

Imho ending the series at the first season point with Yuuji and Shana living together after the love declaration would have been a lot better...

Yep, especially if you think that the cost to animate Tamayura (0 action scene) should be a lot lower than Mirai Nikki...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 11:23:26 AM #

Yeah, and "Snake of the Festival" truly sounded like a badass name at the time. Maybe I'll marathon it once it ends. It's all JC Staff's fault >.<

The only reason I could think off would be that people there in Japan liked the manga more and disapproved the censorship in the anime adaptation of Mirai Nikki.

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 11:26:35 AM #

He's just a Yuuji with weird clothes and tentacles hairs. We'll watch it all at once when it completes...

This is also true, I heard that the manga had some extremely extreme scene...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 11:33:15 AM #

It's a good thing it's the final season though. I think it's safe to think that sales = probability of new season and such. Which really sucks sometimes.

Yes, very extremely extreme. Which I think would pose a problem come the later arcs. We'll just have to wait and see.

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 11:36:59 AM #

Yep, especially when series you liked (like me with C^3) find itself in a sales condition making it difficult to justify a second season...

Definitely we'll see soon enough. The second half is about to start...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 11:58:09 AM #

In my case it was Ookami-san to Shichinin no Nakamatachi. Love that series ^^

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 12:04:49 PM #

It's a matter of preference I guess, but yeah, they really took comedy and angst to both extremes so it was a hard balance. It's still my go-to anime though ^^

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 12:08:54 PM #

Yep, still a good series. I gave it 7.5!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 12:05:54 PM #

lol, commented on my comment

Leap250 | 245 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 12:07:29 PM #

Ahahah, it happens.

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 11:59:59 AM #

It was a funny series (loved the narrator's voice. Same seiyuu as Kuroko Shirai), but I didn't really liked the gap between funny moments and angst moments.

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 4:19:09 AM #

Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon has soo many BDs sold because of all those water balloons in the anime. I think most of those perverts out there love this kind of anime (in japan). The hentai industry there is also one of the reason, to why this anime gets a lot of sales. I've read some data a few years back regarding BD/DVD sales. Most hentai BD/DVD has a higher numbers of sales compared to the normal anime. If you wanna watch this type of hentai you have to buy the DVD/BD. Which is a different case in anime, which is already available on the TV. Another reason to buy an anime in BD or DVD is because of the uncensored version. lol!

I am one of those person, who thinks buying a BD/DVD is a waste of money. I know it is a way to support them, but if the anime is so so, I wouldn't buy them. It is a different case if the anime is over 9000, like Clannad, Steins;Gate and others, I would certainly buy them. If an anime isn't that good, there is also a couple of other ways to support them like buying their figures and whats not, just because we like a certain character in that particular anime.

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:48:37 AM #

Water balloon alone would have maked Maken-Ki and MajiKoi sells well, even better than Kyoukai-Sen. Instead Maken-ki and Majikoi sales were desperate (2000-2500 items) even if they focus all their life on water balloons.

How could we explain this difference? What's different between the two water balloons?! Any clue?

I do like the extras included in the DVD/BDs, and the whole collector idea. The only thing stopping me now are the prices, if they were something around 30$ for 3 episodes I would already buy entire series...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 9:58:54 AM #

I have no idea on how to explain this. But water balloons will stay water balloons lol. XD

I like them too. Yeah the price is definitely expensive no doubt about that. I'm still waiting for my Toradora! Blu-ray Boxset to arrive at my place. It is taking them a week already. Hopefully it will arrive here a few days from now

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:04:11 AM #

Hey I love water balloons of every form and color! Even, to be honest, I still prefer flat! See Laura from Infinite Stratos? :Q__

You? Flat or Balloon?!

Ahahah, in these days sending packages is a mess with all the holiday stuff...still waiting my figures...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:09:21 AM #

haha. yeah that depends.

Can I say booth? Balloon is nice but not too big xD
Flat is nice as well but the girl as to be beautiful/cute and etc

Yeah I guess it is messed up, now that you mentioned the holiday part. Probably delayed because of that.

I can't wait to see the extra stuff I get, like the illustrations, booklet interview,and some other extra stuff. Haha guess we all have to wait...

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:12:40 AM #

Definitely some balloons are nice, try to think about Charlotte! But if I have to choose, still flat is best!

Awwwwww, we need more goodies! More figures! More space on shelves and more money to buy both! Don't you agree? >_<

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:23:25 AM #

Really i'd go for the balloons then. This season you can only make flat ones as your waifu i'll go hunt for the balloons xD

Definitely more spaces on shelves, I might need to buy a glass display this year.. Too many figures. Of course more money lol! How do you think we are going to be able to by any of those goodies without money? Steal? xD

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:27:05 AM #

Oh god, what were we talking about again?! Oh yes, beautiful girls and their water balloons...

The problem is not to buy new shelves, but the place where to put them! My room is already filled at the moment. >_<

Go Go Go Super thief Rei!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:47:52 AM #

-______- No no we were talking about you only getting flat chested anime girls as your waify for the winter season

I see. Should take same pictures to share your collections. Well I just started last year, so there is still lots of spaces to fill up.

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:50:59 AM #

Suzu (KSNH) + Inori (GC) + Tsugumi (GC) + Laura (IS) for me?! It's definitely not a bad idea...:Q____

Yeah, I'll make some photo as soon as I have some time. *__*

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 12:35:59 PM #

Ok take them

Wait is Furukawa Nagisa flat as well? Mine btw xD

Looking forward to your messing room? xD

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 12:54:36 PM #

messy*

Rei | 508 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 1:01:08 PM #

Ahahah, I don't like much Nagisa so well go ahead.

It's a lot more properly organized than you'd think...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:19:19 AM #

"Water balloon alone would have maked Maken-Ki and MajiKoi sells well, even better than Kyoukai-Sen."

because Horizon is DEEP
They add some plot that makes no sense and people understand shit what is going on but otakus are stupid, they think that it's just too deep so they overhype it as the best show.
I started to hate Horizon from when they started to argue how to save her, that part showed that the show makes no sense and it's all to make the show artificially look deep.
And when people say Horizon is about politics I just have to facepalm. But that is what they think, that it's about politics and deep and why they buy it, even though in reality it's just random crap pulled together to make it look like it's something special.

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:24:13 AM #

The story does have sense if you know what they're talking about. The problem with the anime is that they speed up a bit too much on the explanation side making it look completely random.
Try giving a look at http://kyoukaisen.tumblr.com/ . There are detailed explanation of all the events, it's actually well done as series.
Just missing proper time to develop in the anime, it would have needed at least 52 episodes to start with. After all it was based on a 1500+ pages "light" novel!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:37:36 AM #

But you can like NGE without reading a manual what all those things are and mean.
It's not only the stupid infodump in Horizon but that all those things are such crap, those politics are such a joke and the characters are even a bigger joke - like the pope and his demon friend.

alex | 362 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:39:06 AM #

Being hilarious was definitely their objective I suppose, like the comedic scene of the Pope running around to catch Masazumi....there really never was a serious scene in the series apart from the flashback ones...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 4:21:04 AM #

Why does the wall exist? Easy - the Japanese are weirdos whose brain function on a wavelength different from the rest of the world. I'm probably one of the former category.

Aedes | 319 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:41:35 AM #

Ahahah, you're so drastic Aaedes, I think you're pretty normal for our standards!
By the way we need more review! GoGoGo!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 4:00:17 PM #

That doesn't bode well for our standards if I'm considered normal by it.

I'll go whip my lil' slave Aero until he comes up with a review, which should soon.

I'll conjure one up myself too in the very near future; expect more Cure Girl eye candy by 珈琲貴族.

Aedes | 319 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 4:05:24 PM #

Well, try to think about Zen, Micchi, EroJun, etc... and then say it to yourself "thanks god I'm normal, just like them!"

(and now I'll get bashed heavily by all of them...

)

I'm extremely eager man! Need more bishoujoz! And delishuz pics ok?! :Q___

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 4:13:06 PM #

Oh, so, we're all normal? Thank God!
By delishuz pics do you mean the *cough* erotic *cough* sort? I'm drooling just looking at them.

Aedes | 319 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 4:18:38 PM #

Well, if normality is insanity the thing may not be the most "desirable".

I'm already drooling and I'm not even looking at them! :O

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 5:01:19 AM #

It's an interesting case comparing Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon with Mirai Nikki. Water balloon factor aside, there are other reasons:

- the conversion from light novel to anime (as oppose to manga to anime) is more highly anticipated for its dedicated fanbase;

- Horizon appeals to a wider (note: domestic) audience: otaku (water ballons), history buff (tons of Japanese and world history behind the fantasy setting), mecha fans (gundam?), fantasy / J-rpg game fans (different classes of warriors) etc. The various technical details in the novel are very hard to convey to foreign languages through mere fan-subs.

- Horizon being an action anime had a significant higher budget than Mirai Nikki and it really showed in terms of animation, CV cast etc. For this reason, it's probably more of a "collector's choice".

dene323 | 6 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:43:48 AM #

Ahahah, I doubt water balloon will affect that much the sales, or not?

Why this? I'm not sure, any hint?

True enough, Horizon appeal to an older category who probably have bigger quantity of money available to spend creating this deep differences between the two.

Agreed that Horizon production quality were ages better than Mirai Nikki in every regard. Animation, Seiyuu, even Music! This may be the strongest reason...

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:27:07 AM #

About my first point, just like what Horomi said below, in terms of visuals, although Asread did improve on the original manga (lots of great facial expressions, not to mention the classic yandere look at the end of ep1...), it probably would not be enough to convince the dedicated manga fans to pay for BD, since they probably own the manga collection already.

Converting a lightnovel is different, you are looking at a fanbase who are used to visualize their favourite characters and battles solely based on a few pages of illustrations. They have long craved to see live actions. A good comparison would be the Lord of the Rings novel finally being converted to a film trilogy.

Production value being the deciding factor, coupled with the subject matter, it's like comparing the DVD sales of an engaging/dark/edgy crime drama (Dexter for example) with a popular blockbuster fantasy / sci-fi movie (LoTR / Avatar).

Although I have to say both Asread and Sunrise achieved their objectives. Sunrise took a risk to invest quite a bit in this daunting series (with world-building materials up to 1000 pages); after muted initial response, they can now say money well spent. As for asread, Mirai Nikki won't generate much revenue, but has done tremedously to salvage their reputation, don't you agree? My only concern is after this, wether asread would continue to experiment with new ideas and differentiate itself from peers, or play it safe and revert back to more "mainstream" series.

dene323 | 6 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:34:37 AM #

Definitely the production qualities of Mirai Nikki were very very far away from Kyoukai-Sen. I have to really congratulate with Sunrise for the tremendously good job they've done on this production. The best of the season in terms of animation and voice-over for sure...

True! I completely forgot that LN images are very scarce compared to the full-imagery of a manga production. Indeed this is a good point!

Yeah, Sunrise tried something risky, but managed to pull out a great sale result. A lot more money than the one used in production for sure with that incredible sale number...

Definitely for us foreigner, but I wonder if Japan's watchers think the same. We need someone who is knowledgeble of popular Japanese BBS to understand what they think of Mirai Nikki.

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 7:39:52 AM #

Maybe everyone (in Japan) had enough of Mirai Nikki just from the manga series and they didn't find the anime series better/more appealing than the manga series and thus decided not to acquire the BD/DVDs. Therefore "Even Tamayura, considered by many bloggers around here an "extremely unpopular choice" got more than Mirai Nikki with a great 4.077 BDs sold in its first volume".

Another point to take note of is the broadcast quality of the anime. Tamayura was broadcasted on AT-X which is known to be of poor broadcast/video quality. While Mirai Nikki was broadcasted on Toyko MX, Chiba TV, just to name a feel. Perhaps they wanted to view Tamayura in a higher quality, therefore acquiring the BD/DVD.

Also I feel that Tamayura is a nice series.

Hiromi | 2 Comments | Reply

1/2/2012 9:51:41 AM #

Possibly, but that would be in contrast with Kyoukai-sen that is a very popular Light Novel following step by step the novels. Differences in the fanbase?!

I'm not sure people would buy DVD/BD at that price point only to have a better visual quality, I wouldn't at least!

Maybe there is something in the limited edition goods that we don't know about making people buy one or another series...

I agree with you, I liked it a lot and think Jun'ichi Sato has done a great job!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:29:52 AM #

Difference in fanbase most likely. Maybe Tamayura appealed to people with pockets full of cash!

Hiromi | 2 Comments | Reply

1/2/2012 10:35:48 AM #

Ahahahah, possibly, but still I wonder what are the cause bringing one or another anime to succeed or not in sales...>_<

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 9:22:28 AM #

Maybe you're looking at this from the wrong view. Maybe it seems like some shows are unpopular on a worldwide scale, but in reality, only the people who cry the loudest about how terrible a show is catch your attention. It's possible that when you look at the world as a whole, the popularity of a show is about the same as its success. I mean, I know that I read all the time about how Naruto and Bleach are horrible, yet they're mainstream manga/anime that has stayed fairly consistent in popularity for a long time. Maybe your view of the popularity of show is as one of those people who appreciate the lesser-known shows, which may not be a good representation.

Also...Tamayura, Horizon, and Mirai Nikki are all awesome

I miss Tamayura and Horizon already >.>

marthaurion | 907 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 9:55:18 AM #

This is also extremely true, as people who cry the loudest are always the one complaining about something. I still don't think it should make such a drastic difference. We're talking about that KyokaiSen sold 6 times the number of Mirai Nikki...

Naruto and Bleach mainstream idea is that "they're awesome" (not my cup of tea though...) and its pretty clear from the infinite quantity of website dedicated to them. It's pretty impossible to not see their popularity or not?

Don't miss Horizon, she'll be back in some months with an even bigger season...more Suzu! Only for me!

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:00:56 AM #

I feel like Mirai Nikki is one of those hit or miss things. While it's awesome for us, I think a lot of people get disturbed by it. And by a lot of people, I mean most people. Americans who like excessive violence and death would surely think highly of it, but I'm guessing the Japanese fanbase isn't quite the same.

marthaurion | 907 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:06:38 AM #

How can you get disturbed by such a wonderful cute stalker that Yuno is?!

I'm not American! I'm not Dan! But yes, I like it for the incredible gap between Yuno two personalities, its something not easy to understand. Do you understand?

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 10:45:37 AM #

Haha, Americans are not the only ones liking excessive violence and death

Can't speak for others, but from what I know Mirai Nikki was definitely one of the most popular shows among Chinese fans. Not counting some penguins carried over from the summer, only Fate/Zero was more popular in the past few months. Guilty Crown was the other most talked about show in Chinese blogsphere, but by "talk about", it's more like ridiculing... reaction was very mixed as expected. Mirai Nikki enjoyed a generally positive reception.

Horizon had a very very slow start. A lot of fans were dubbing it with a subtitle "we still do not know what that new anime was yapping about" (a word play on Ano Hana). But its popularity rebounded quite a bit toward the second half, and now people are generally looking forward to the second season.

dene323 | 6 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:49:20 AM #

Was joking, but the stereotype is definitely the American one.

I can see Guilty Crown is "popular" for the same reason in all the world from what you say. I wonder what sales will the first volume have this january, its going to be interesting to see if they end up failing or winning...

Ahahah, liked that wordplay and yes was my same feelings till midpoint. Why so much wait?! We need more Horizon! More Suzu! More Tomo! :O

feal87 | | Reply

1/2/2012 9:51:32 PM #

The invisible wall was present long before I started watching anime. I think it can be attributed to the material being aired in Japan compared to the rest of the world. As far as I can tell, most media in the west is largely American-influenced, whereas Japanese media is mostly Japanese-produced.

When you look at the TV shows that Japan has, they are very similar to some of the anime that are popular outside of Japan. Mirai Nikki, for example, sounds like a typical Japanese drama series. With so many options, it's a simple choice to just watch something on Japanese TV rather than by DVDs/BDs.

Western TV shows seem more focused on action (Cops), daily life (The Office), or reality TV (Big Brother), not the fantasical circumstances you find in anime. As for why anime made it over rather than live-action, all I can say is that from what I've seen, many Japanese live-action shows have actors who can't act.

Nopy | 105 Comments - | Reply

1/2/2012 10:20:47 PM #

Well, I never really had a look into Japan's culture before I started watching anime, but I can see your point judging from the films I saw in Japan's past...

Ok, that may be a reason especially as in the western world a drama series like Mirai Nikki would not get taken seriously at all. A middle schooler in a blood royale?! "Where is my terminator?!" would be the average man answer!

I haven't really watched any Live action shows, and I probably never will judging from your opinions...

feal87 | | Reply

1/3/2012 5:47:30 PM #

Sometimes I don't really understand how anime studios can produce all these shows through the whole year, with "just selling around 6000 copys of each volume, well the prices aren't cheap, but nevertheless, woot?

I think most shows work in both cultures, but not everything. There are different tastes between the japanese audience and the western ones and from region to region there are also different tastes in the west.

After over 300 animes I feel like Im already japanized with my taste ^o^, many shows I like are considered as unpopular or boring here.

When I see which kind of anime shows are licensed in germany or elsewhere I sometimes feel annoyed, it's mainly easy to digest action anime with fanservice, or darker toned shows.

Slice of life animes like Tamayura rarely made it into our shops. Well, it's nice that at least a few anime is licensed here, but there is not much I would consider to buy.

Wieselhead | 167 Comments - | Reply

1/3/2012 6:04:49 PM #

They say 3000/4000 dvd sold per volume makes the studio recover expenses, that would be 80$*4000=320.000$*6=1.920.000$ to recover the expenses in the worst case...

Definitely yes, I also got a lot japanized in tastes recently after watching so many anime series and most western film just don't affect me anymore, especially the hollywood action film...

Same in Italy man, all is Ikkitousen, Tenjou Tenge and crap like that...

feal87 | | Reply

1/3/2012 6:40:21 PM #

Ok, ok Im not that knowledgeable about these things XD
But making a anime show is still expensive I guess, it would be interesting to know what a decent 12 long anime cost the studio.

thats one side effect of watching anime, I guess.
Well, I can still enjoy some movies, but I can't enjoy most US series, with maybe two exceptions, but I just don't like the way they tell stories anymore.

In the evening there is always the question anime or US show, anime wins nearly everytime, banzai

Wieselhead | 167 Comments - | Reply

1/3/2012 6:54:37 PM #

Well, unless some of studio actually release some figures we can just guess from the few statements done by producers...

Agreed, I especially started to loathe series starring only muscleman as protagonist. Where is my useless anime protagonist?!

Ahahah, definitely!

feal87 | | Reply

1/3/2012 7:02:53 PM #

Don't worry Shu will soon return, with his wimpiness of mass destruction XD Imagine a Guilty Crown movie with Jason Statham, Vin Diesel and the Rock *Roar*! Wait that could actually be awesome.

Wieselhead | 167 Comments - | Reply

1/3/2012 7:04:48 PM #

Ahahahahah, I want to see a Vin Diesel acting wimpy! That would be awesome to say the least!

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Popularity in Anime - The wall that divides Japan and the world

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